Sunday, February 14, 2010
My Hero...Leonard Pitts writes Sarah Palin a letter
Menu of the Day:
on iTunes: Counting Crows, Friend of the Devil
Exciting news: Apolo Ono's Silver medal last night in short track.
Not so exciting news: I am reading Twilight. I know, i know. I've resisted this but i actually sort of like it.
Latest Mistake: I painted my bathroom yesterday. (It was a 10 hour job because i had to paint the ceiling too and i also super cleaned it too and it took three coats of light green paint. I hate it. It looks like Comet. So i'm going to redo it. (This will be my third can of paint since i got started.
Body: I am so sore from painting. The whole backside of my body feels like a bruise.
What i keep forgetting: Actually i remembered everything this week! (But how can I really be sure of that?)
Quote: More to the point, something is wrong when we celebrate mental mediocrity like yours under the misapprehension that competence or, God forbid, intelligence, makes a person one of those ``elites'' -- that's a curse word now -- lacking authenticity, compassion and common sense. (from Leonard Pitt's letter to Sarah P. below.)
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Dear Sarah: Say it is so, run for president
By LEONARD PITTS
Dear Sarah Palin:
I hear you're pondering a run for the White House in 2012. Last week, you told Fox news it would be ``absurd'' to rule it out.
I'm writing to ask that you rule it in. I very badly want you to run for -- and win -- the Republican nomination for the presidency.
I know you're waiting for the punch line. Maybe you figure I think you'd be a weak candidate who would pave the way for President Obama's easy re-election.
That's not it. No, I want you to run because I believe a Palin candidacy would force upon this country a desperately needed moment of truth. It would require us to finally decide what kind of America we want to be.
Mrs. Palin, you are an avatar of the shameless hypocrisy and cognitive disconnection that have driven our politics for the last decade, a process of stupidification creeping like kudzu over our national life.
As Exhibit A, consider your recent speech at a so-called ``tea party'' event, wherein you dismissed the president as a ``charismatic guy with a teleprompter.'' Bad enough you imply that teleprompter use is the mark of an insubstantial man, even though you and every other major politician uses them. But what made the comment truly jaw-dropping is that even as you spoke, you had penned on your left palm, clearly visible, a series of crib notes.
Mrs. Palin, if Obama is an idiot for reading a prepared speech off a teleprompter, what are you for reading notes you've inked on your hand like a school kid who failed to study for the big test?
In the Fox interview, you scored Obama for supposedly expecting Americans to ``sit down and shut up'' and accept his policies. But when asked when the president has ever said that, you couldn't answer. Obama, you sputtered, has just been condescending with his ``general persona.''
I found that a telling moment. See, ultimately what you represent is not conservatism. Heck, I suspect that somewhere, Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan are spinning like helicopter rotors at the very idea.
No, you represent the latest iteration of an anti-intellectualism that periodically rises in the American character. There is, historically and persistently, a belief in us that y'all just can't trust nobody who acts too smart or talks too good -- in other words, somebody whose ``general persona'' indicates they may have once cracked a book or had a thought. Americans tend to believe common sense the exclusive province of humble folks without sheepskins on the wall or big words in their vocabularies.
I don't mock those people. They are my parents, my family elders, members of my childhood church. I honor their native good sense, what mom called ``mother wit.'' But if it is insulting to condescend to them, it is equally insulting to mythologize them.
More to the point, something is wrong when we celebrate mental mediocrity like yours under the misapprehension that competence or, God forbid, intelligence, makes a person one of those ``elites'' -- that's a curse word now -- lacking authenticity, compassion and common sense.
So no, this is not a clash of ideologies, but a clash between intelligence and its opposite. And I am tired of being asked to pretend stupid is a virtue. That's why I'd welcome the moment of truth your campaign would bring. It would force us to decide once and for all whether we are permanently committed to the path of ignorance, of birthers, truthers and tea party incoherence you represent, or whether we will at last turn back from the cliff toward which we race.
If the latter, wonderful, God bless America. If the former, well, some of us can finally quit hoping the nation will return to its senses and plan accordingly. Either way, we need to know, and your candidacy would tell us. If you love this country, Mrs. Palin, you can do it no greater service.
Run, Sarah, run.
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Thank you, Leonard Pitts!
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32 comments:
I read this in the paper, and I actually like Pitts most of the time, -- this time he's totally correct.
Unfortunately a Palin candidacy would virtually guarantee another 4 years of Obama, if for no other reason than the Nader effect. There'd be a huge % of people like me -- in that abandoned middle -- who couldn't stomach either one of them. Obama's disappointed me more in a single year than any president I've ever voted for, and I voted for some lulus.
Neither one of them really knows what they are doing. One of them still manages to sound erudite with absolutely no grasp of reality, while the other plays to a reactionary base that is sick of being mocked while they are being taken advantage of - an easily inflamed group. (And really -- while I'm not a fan of Palin's by any definition, what's worse - having a few key points written down somewhere or reading your entire speech every time?)
It's going to be an ugly decade, that's for sure, either way. I'm still looking for the good knight to come charging in...almost 4 decades of unfulfilled longing.
Can't imagine a comet-colored bathroom, but on the bright side it does sound tres' fifties retro.
I wish that we could post photos in our comments -- I'd show you my bathroom color horror story. The bathroom from hell, we called it. During the 2 weeks it took for us to find a 3-day weekend to paint it I had to sheild my eyes from the brightness whenever I turned the lights on -- But it was such a pretty shade of coral on the swatch...
I love that you're reading Twilight, jo. It's fun, isn't it? I read the whole series.
And I think Leonard Pitts should run for president. I love his proposition that we should call America on its bullshit.
A final note -- I will never understand or accept that liberal = smart while conservative = dumb.
In re-reading, Pitts is actually validating that which he would, at first blush, seek to discredit -- liberals, as a group, ARE elitist. No one could possibly be as smart as they are and still disagree with them. Ergo, those who disagree are hopelessly ignorant.
I know a lot of really smart people whose political bent is conservative. And I know a lot of liberals who couldn't pour water out of a jar if you wrote the instructions on the bottom.
The one is not an indication of the other, and it's a serious error of judgment to act on that flawed assumption.
This is one of Leonard Pitt's best letters to date!
Jo Jo worked hard yesterday, not only did she scrub and paint the walls three times, but she prepped, cleaned, dusted, and even flipped the bed. I might just have to give that girl a back rub. :)
I've never read Leonard Pitts before! at first I thought it was a local thing but since Pearl said she read it in the paper too - i'm gonna be ignorant and ask who he is?!
I love him! I love when people write this way, its intelligent and fast but there is still so much voice in it, its great writing
i LOVE "And I am tired of being asked to pretend stupid is a virtue."
Palin drives me crazy, (what an understatement) where I dont even think I would bother writing a letter about her because I just dont even take her seriously. not as a politican or even as a person.
MH -- Pitts is a sydicated columnist who writes for the Miami Herald but is seen in papers around the country. He is a very observant man. And smart, too, so he must be a liberal.
;-)
pearl, i disagree. Pitts makes a very scary point about Americans in huge numbers embracing a woman like Sarah Palin to be a leader for this country. How did it ever come to this that this woman can gather so much support? She is not a smart woman. She is a total hypocrite who has no busy even considering leading in ANY capacity, even for president of the PTA.
You jump on the liberal elitist issue almost as often as anyone brings liberal politics up and i don't think that is fair. Where DID this come from that 'elitist' was something to be ashamed of anyway? (I believe it started with Election 2000 and Al Gore.)
For God's sake, Pitts even mentions that Reagan is rolling over in his grave, so where did this bend come from about the liberal elitist? Why can't you just say that Leonard Pitts makes a good point without making your dig?
Well you know what? i like my president being a hell of lot smarter than i am. And i suspect that many Republicans do too.
My problem is that idiots like George W. and Sarah Palin are getting a majority of support from Americans who don't seem to care if the president is qualified for the job or not, so long as it is someone who is in office who won't make THEM feel stupid. And THAT is what is stupid.
You can put a label on it all you want. But to think that our president should be smart should not be a terrible thing and it isn't a liberal attitude either.
As long as it is not a toga party mentality.
oops i thought i deleted the last line which went along with i want a smart president now matter what the party.
I have no idea about Larry The Cable Guy's political affiliation. But i do know that i don't want Larry the Cable Guy for my president but i suspect that many Americans would vote in great numbers for Larry the Cable Guy over Obama and that is what is frightening to me. And that is what i hear Leonard Pitts saying.
Webster's describes 'elite' this way:
"The best or most skilled members of a given social group."
The definition below comes from the Online Dictionary: (This decription i suspect is the one that Palin means when talking about Obama being elite.) However this does not describe Obama. It sounds more country club or Junior League. So why does Palin even make the connection?
Online dictionary:
snobbish, exclusive, superior, arrogant, selective, pretentious, stuck-up, patronizing, condescending, snooty, uppity, high and mighty (informal), hoity-toity, high-hat.
I think Reagan was smart. And Colin Powell. And the first Bush president, too. Nixon was intelligent, but bad. And wasn't Eisenhower a republican (I know I'm dating myself by not knowing that)?
I don't equate liberalism (which I don't necessarily even identify myself with) with superior intelligence.
But I do think that Palin is dumb as a post, and I think that's what Pitts is pointing out - that there are people that feel more comfortable with that for whatever reason.
eque says:
"But I do think that Palin is dumb as a post, and I think that's what Pitts is pointing out - that there are people that feel more comfortable with that for whatever reason."
That's exactly what i think the article is about. (Eisenhower was Republican). I think McCain is smart too, but i don't think i can forgive him for bringing Palin to the front page.
Well, I think Pitts would say that McCain did us a favor. It's quite possible he'd be president now if he hadn't.
I was also going to say that Rice is a smart republican. But she's a sell out, where she doesn't follow her smarts, she follows her opportunities. I think McCain ended up being the same way, but made stupid choices and blew his opportunities.
I'm really surprised the tactics of Karl Rove (another smart pub who didn't use his powers for good), were so short lived. That gives me hope that a majority of the American people got too smart to fall for that.
Goodness, this is the most I've thought about politics in a long time.
Brian - definitely get to that back rub!
I didn't have to "jump" on the liberal elitist issue, jo. It came gift wrapped, at the heart of Pitts' editorial...and while I like much of his writing, the fact remains: Pitts is a liberal elitist.
I realize that any liberal would prefer the Webster's definition, but I see far too many for whom patronizing (even arrogant) is more accurate. Pitts has a facility for patronizing.
Because thinking that anyone who doesn't agree with you is just plain stupid IS elitist and that IS wrong. Period. That's the liberal elitism that I hate with such passion.
Make no mistake -- I'm not defending Palin by any definition. Palin is the primary -- maybe the only - reason I even voted for Obama at all. I will always blame her for that. I did not want her even close to the White House. Still don't. Never will.
The irony is that many are running to her side right now for the exact same reason so many of you were so quick to embrace Obama back in the day -- to get as far away from the guy in charge because the guy in charge doesn't have a clue.
Obama's administration scares the crap out of a lot of people. His selection of Rahm Emmanuel being a prime example. Look up 'arrogant' in Websters - there's a picture of Rahm.
Even back to O's campaign days...when you'd expect more discretion -- remember his comments in Pennsylvania?
"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them...And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not.
And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-no-surprise-that-ha_b_96188.html)
That hasn't been forgotten, and there are hundreds of thousands of these disenfranchised folks out there who see those kinds of comments as being condescending and arrogant. So they are turning to the least condescending and arrogant person they see. And she's playing 'folksy' to the hilt. Worked for W. Worked for Slick Willie too.
I'm obviously the least liberal person at this table and am not at all comfortable being forced into the Hasslebeck seat, so I'll just shut up now.
First of all, before thoughts, feelings. I have enjoyed Leonard Pitts for years. I appreciate the way he says it like he sees it. I don’t always agree but probably like him because his thoughts do often mirror my own. I think he is bright, thoughtful and wants the best for our country.
Things I think
The smartest person in the room is not always the best person for the job.
The dumbest person in the room is rarely the right person.
I know smart people without good common sense. I know plenty of not-so-smart people without good common sense too.
It takes a combination of intelligence, common sense, experience, altruism and arrogance to govern well. I’m not sure what the ratios are, but do know the parts aren’t equal. I think it’s the arrogance that gets politicians in trouble with the public, the affairs, the glib statements, but without it decisions could not be made.
It’s like the arrogance of surgeons. In the doctor-hierarchy, surgeons are usually the best paid and most revered by patients but seen as the most difficult and least able to collaborate with others. They are the ones most likely to be abusive to support staff and condescending to patients. But would you want an uncertain, self-doubting doctor making that first incision?
My initial concerns with Obama were around his lack of experience, I still think it’s a problem. A bigger problem was, in my mind, McCain’s inconsistency and lack of honesty. Neither was helped by vice-presidential choices. So I went with intelligence, a sense of fairness and the belief Obama would surround himself with bright, experienced individuals. In some ways, it’s his lack of arrogance that has gotten him into trouble. If he were less concerned about inclusiveness we may have had real health care reform.
Politics makes for strange bedfellows. The country is in an economic mess; we pander to the rich and powerful and do not do a good job of lifting up the less fortunate. I have to admit I was raised by tax-and-spend Democrats and am more interested in social justice and access to services than economic stability. I do know the president needs to be concerned about both.
I want a president who shares my values and has the smarts and the chutzpa to take action.
Why anyone woud want the job is beyond me.
it's very difficult for me to debate anyone because i am not that quick on my feet or have any retention for facts. And it's REALLY hard for me to even try when Obama gets compared to Bush because i don't believe there is any comparison.
I do remember the comments about clinging to guns. Howard Dean said something similar. I believe there is some truth to that. (And i am not a liberal elitist. For one thing i am not that smart.)
You value intelligence more than probably anyone on this blog. And i value your intelligence on this blog too. So i don't have a problem when you go correcting me or making me explain myself. I expect it and welcome it.
But honestly you have to know that at times it can come across as condescending. So why diss Pitts?
I really don't mind being corrected. It's how i learned. (I come from a background where my parents speak in double negatives. louielouie on this blog is one person who helped me with that back in the 1980's when i was a secretary at the school where she taught.)
I have come to expect that if i write something passionate here i better be able to back it up. Because you will call me out. I have come to not only expect it but to welcome it. You have license for that. It's what makes you pearl. You add an element that keeps talking about politics in check. But i'm not going to sit down when i don't agree either.
At times I have felt less than smart if i don't agree with you. And as smart as i believe i am, i know i am not the smartest person in the room. But i don't need to be and i learn from others who are. And maybe i can't debate to the fullest but i can still stand up. And i will keep doing that. Even when it's scary.
So i am a bit perplexed that you would call out Pitts.
i put this up because i found an article that i believed spoke for me. No one i know personally agrees that Palin would make a great president. So it seemed like a pretty safe political issue to blog about.
Sarah, we must have been writing at the same time. Funny how we both mention 'the smartest person in the room'.
You said it well. Arrogance is at times required.
"In some ways, it’s his lack of arrogance that has gotten him into trouble. If he were less concerned about inclusiveness we may have had real health care reform."
Sarah/louie, i totally agree!
I've re-read everything I've posted here several times now and as far as I can tell, there is nothing that I have said that 'calls you out'.
If pointing out the irony in Pitt's position somehow places your intelligence in question, I totally missed that.
It certainly was not my intent.
It would be kinda rude to do that to someone on their own blog.
And I'm not rude. Or condescending.
And I value common sense far more than intelligence.
You're calling me out for me saying you call me out. And I don't even mean being called out as a bad thing! (Granted the calling out goes back to some Gumbo days. I don't post much about politics at all on this blog. I think the last real political thing i wrote about was my farewell letter to George Bush over a year ago.)
The part about mentioning my own intelligence is not well articulated.
I guess what i am trying to say goes back to what i said before. I do believe that people flock to Palin because she doesn't make them feel stupid because she speaks their language.
It would be one thing if she was folksy and smart. But she's not. And i believe supporting her and giving her any kind of credence is scary for our country. And it makes me wonder how many dumb people we have in this country who are quite willing to put her in office so as to feed their lack of self esteem.
My point is these Palin supporters should WANT a president who is intelligent, (maybe even elite!), and as louie says, a little arrogance wouldn't hurt either.
Being in a room with someone smarter than i am makes me feel safer.
omg I have been so out of the loop I cant believe i've been missing out on all this political banter!!
I think in the simplest terms people like Sarah Palin because she's not intelligent because so many times when an intelligent politican is speaking it goes right over their heads and they dont understand what they are talking about, you listen to Sarah Palin and you understand every word because shes not intelligent enough to understand real politics in the first place.
"The irony is that many are running to her side right now for the exact same reason so many of you were so quick to embrace Obama back in the day -- to get as far away from the guy in charge because the guy in charge doesn't have a clue" Pearl
Pearl, I can assure you (at least specifically talking for me and Jo) tha we did NOT embrace Obama because of Bush (who i'm assuming youre refering to as the man who doesnt have a clue.) Jo and I both fell in love with Obama because of OBAMA not for lack of politics or intelligence in anyone else - we had and still faith in Obama for who he is, what his politics are. it just so happens that in our eyes he stands out far from those of Bush and Palin.
I also think the other reason that people are scared of Obama and his administration is because he is different and new and honestly they dont know politics well enough, especially in this new age. they are used to traditional politics of what so many presdients before have done (i dont think i need to go into specifically what he has done different, i think we all know) but people are always afraid of change especially when they dont understand it
Louie - I LOVEE your point on arrogant surgeons - in certain job positions you need an air of arrogance and confidence and I think it is something important in politics even if it might be a little bit of a show (which in some cases it might be) but i mean how can you really be in the presidential cabinet and NOT be a little arrogant or condescending? thats a major ego boost for anyone!
Pearl, like you said; I think you the one standing alone at the table BUT we dont want you to leave the table :) you keeps us on our toes! (just wanted to make that clear. lol)
I personally think its really hard to judge a President while he's still in office ESPECIALLY only after a year, I really dont think its been enough time for anything to really happen. I'm still incredulous that people are disappointed in him already because I think everything is still a work in progress a lot of stuff has happened unexpectedly and certain things on his to-do list were post-poned AND (this is a completely personal opinion) I think we, as citizens, dont know shit. LOL I dont think we have a single clue as to what is really happening behind the doors of the oval office, well okay maybe not that extreme, what im thinking is that i think there is a lot of stuff going on with the war and (well everything else on the to do list) that we arent allowed to know. i do feel that obama is as honest as he can be with us (i think more than most presidents have been) but of course we cant know everything and i think he might be getting judged unfairly based on some of those secrets...
Well, I'm willing to give Obama a chance. He's worked very hard to make change and he's been dealt probably the worst mix of legislators known to man. I cannot stand Pelosi. He'd been better off with a Republican House and Senate. Checks and balances is the heart of this country.
I want intelligence but I also want to feel the person relates to me. When it was Bush vs. Clinton I voted Clinton. Both were very intelligent but Clinton related to me....
It's one of the reasons I couldn't stand either Kerry nor Bush. Bush was a cold man who seemed mean. Had he been intelligent he would have been much more dangerous. Kerry was a slick, Northeasterner who definitely didn't relate to me.
These were all first impressions but they stuck.
The one thing Obama had different - he had passion. Maybe not in the form of Clinton or Reagan but he had it. He seemed to care. I think he does and after eight years of an administration that didn't I'm willing to gamble on it.
I know I'm rambling but I wanted to get my point across. I get what Pearl is saying. There has to be more..not just intelligence..
I just feel Obama has that more...
Oh..and Palin would never win. EVER.
susie i am TOTALLY on the same page with you!
I can totally relate and connect with Obama, NO ONE can try and argue and say that Obama doesnt have a passion or interest and he definitley only wants better things for our country - i think you can truly only argue on whats best for the country and how he may be going about it.
i definitley agree about Kerry - the Kerry campaign was definitley one that was built off of "we hate the other guy anyone will be better" although, Kerry was pretty much scum. I almost hate to say it but it might be a good thing that he didnt win the 2004 election - i felt a little sleezy the more i learned about him.
I dont think Palin would win, but I do think she would have a scary high number - I think she would actually have a credible campaign, she would definitley be on a higher level than Nader and have real votes - and thats the whole point of this whole letter.
hey y'all. i guess we can all agree about Palin. We don't have to agree about Obama or Leonard Pitts. (I still have faith in Obama. He came into office with a pretty big mess and it's only been a year.)
And I just feel like i like them both SO much that i jump to a defense mode when someone else doesn't. (Susie, BTW, i agree with you about Pelosi - wish she and Reid would get outta there.) And now Evan Bayh is joining the ranks of Democrats not seeking re-election? You gotta wonder what the hell is going on.
Changing the subject......
I put up a new photo of my paint. I think they are all pretty. At the top is the teal blue (called Nassau blue) that i bought and didn't use at all. It's so pretty in the can though!
The dark blue on the right is the paint i had on the bathroom wall before painting. And then there is the Comet green on the left. I think if i call it Fresca green instead of Comet green i will start liking it more. I just knew that i wasn't ready to tackle it again after two days in a row of a sore backside.
I can't believe that left can came out like comet. it looks so innocuous in the can! when you're feeling better, try the nassau blue.
I think if I were a democrat in the congress right now, i'd want to quit too. the republicans are so damn relentless. i guess that's why they usually win. it's their game. and maybe pelosi and reid don't quit because they learned how to play the game, so they're just the left side brand of relentless.
I do think the top is the prettiest of the blue but I still think the left one will grow on you and i think you should let it and save the back aches : ) plus you can always re-do it whenever (paint truly doesnt go bad you just mix it up and youre good) and if you do it in a couple months its like a whole new bathroom AGAIN lol
equeyaya, you might be on to something i mean we all know politics is a game and a dirty one at that and the best ones are the sleeziest - which is maybe why Obama doesnt SEEM like the best LOL
hey you guys, I have a good thought for you. a friend of mine came up with this and I started cracking up laughing it paints the best picture ever!! ready? "what do you think about a fanny pack filled with clam chowder?" LOL I totally start picturing some old man sitting on a bench on the boardwalk eating the clam chowder out of his fanny pack that is proudly pulled up to his man boobs LOL its like the best thing i've ever heard in my life I think.
Lol, Kylee! You are a nut!
Surprised Kylee-the-art-major hasn't given you this out: that color is pretty much Celadon.
Celadon pottery ranges from a greenish gray to a pale green with a faint blue tinge, which is very like the color you have there. It's a very soothing color.
And Celadon sounds much classier than Comet (or Fresca)
haha I dont get involved with the names of paint they are way too ridiculous, i went to a design convention a couple months ago and there was actually a person there whose entire job was just to name paint.
haha isnt that the best thing you've ever heard though equeyaya? i mean anyone has got to chuckle a little. although maybe im just weird.
my friend was playing this song last night (some kind of rap song) and it says some line about "fucking a mermaid" and i completely seriously respond "can you even possibly fuck a mermaid?!" LOL i still think its a completely valid question but they acted like i was crazy LOL
i have never heard of celadon! But i think it would be such a cool job coming up with names for paint colors and microbrews and wines. I would call a red wine called The Boss. A microbrew would be Easy Road, and a wheat color would be simply Sawyer.
But i was thinking today that the background of my blog here is the exact same color as my wall. I am liking it better and better.
Kylee girl, it's a good thing your mom doesn't read my blog!
Once i get through my Idoling tomorrow, i'll change it. Just need a new idea.
hahahah the mermaid story and the f-word? yeah she would go crazy! but it was a rap song and the whole story revolves around the curseness hahaha
change the blog or the bathroom?
i think after naming SO many paints, wines and beers it would be hard to keep coming up with new names, especially paint when most colors are only different by one shade or two
the girl at the convention was actually the most annoying person ive ever met, she was like rachel ray on prozac - and she had really big teeth i dont know what it is about people like that but they always seem to have big teeth LOL
It’s the car names that slay me. I mean either they are made up weird things. I had a Chevy Monza; what’s a Monza? Or an Altima?
Or they’re like supposed to be powerful, fast or studdly I guess that’s the idea behind the Ranger and the Mustang; what about a Pinto?
And the names that don’t fit anything, a Corolla? A Nova? A Focus; that’s not even a noun
My favorites are the SUV names that just sound huge, a Denali? Or an Armada, isn’t that a whole feet of battle ships?
And what is the rationale behind the Ranchero and an El Camano? And why would you need a sedan that could only carry two people crossed with a pickup that can’t carry a load? And both Ford and Chevy needed to produce a version?
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